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Not Our Cup Of Tea:
Vedas And The Navel Gazers:
The Roundtable Open Forum # 85

Submitted by JAIMAL SINGH




Here's a reminder of why our Gurus asked us as Sikhs to steer away as far as possible from Hinduism and the Vedas - and leave the intricacies of the latter to pre-occupy our Hindu brothers and sisters.

Sikhs, however, are to concentrate on only one thing: worship of the One, while serving humanity ... and the only guide we needed for all the answers was to be Guru Granth Sahib.

The following is an extract from a blog being circulated this week amongst some good souls in India to prove that, yes, the Vedas and the Hindus knew about the Big Bang Theory all along, for the last several millennia, and that the world is merely catching up with them today.

Add this to the file of how the Hindus had, thousands of years ago, invented the atom bomb, the airplane, the laser, the Volkswagen car, Braun kitchen appliances, etc., and all of the technology was later stolen by the Germans and misappropriated for the West's use!



Here are extracts from some "research" being circulated by a Mr Rajendra Deshpande, a "Trainer" in such diverse fields as "Pharma, Travel & Hospitality, and Aviation":


Here is the result of the research I did over the internet and dug up through some text material I had, to find the accurate meaning of time measurements specified in the vedas.


Vedas say that before the creation of the universe Lord Vishnu is sleeping in the ocean of all causes. His bed is a giant serpent with thousands of cobra like hoods. By the way, in the trinity of Creator, Maintainer and Destroyer as mentioned in the vedas, Lord Vishnu is the maintainer. Brahma is the creator and Shiva the destroyer.

While Vishnu is asleep, a lotus sprouts of his navel (note that navel is symbolised as the root of creation!). Inside this lotus, Brahma resides. Brahma represents the universe which we all live in, and it is this Brahma who creates life forms.

Now take a break here. Vishnu is the personification of the eternal multiverse that exists forever without any beginning or end. Brahma is the personification of our temporary physical universe that was created in the big bang.

Brahma is said to have been created from the navel (which is a single point) of Vishnu, described as a lotus blooming out of the navel, much like our big bang universe. Now this universe represented by Brahma is not a permanent universe, it is temporary, Brahma lives for 100 years say the vedas and then dies and then a new universe (Brahma) is born.

So as per vedas our universe lives for 100 years. Later we shall see how long each year of Brahma is.

For now, brahma represents our universe which has birth and death, a big bang and a big cruch, from a navel singularity. Vishnu represents the eternity that lies beyond our universe which has no birth or death and that which is eternal! Many such universes like ours exist in Vishnu.
Vedas say that thousands of brahmas have passed away! In other words, this is not the first time universe has been created.

Let us come back to the time measurements now. Brahma lives for hundred years say vedas and we are in the first day of the 51st year of the brahma.

A Year of Brahma

By the way each year of Brahma has 360 days. And we are in the first day of the 51st year of our current brahma. Vedas also say that Lord Hanuman will be the next Brahma. Well, thats something I have to do some research into later, the more things to think about, the more happy and occupied I am

Coming back to a day of the Brahma. Well, there is day and night. Vedas say that during the day Brahma is busy in creation of life and during the night all life he created is absorbed back into him! So we will be there only for this day of Brahma, which is the first day of his 51st year. But dont feel sad, let me promise you, this is a pretty long day.

A day of Brahma

Each day of brahma is called a Kalpa, and this itself is very huge a number. No wonder, ancient Indians had to be perfect in mathematics before going into all these things.

A kalpa is made up of brahma’s one day and one night.


The day has 14 Manvantaras. Similarly the night has an equal 14 Manvantaras. But then Brahma is resting in the night, so lets get back to the day again. We are in the 7th Manvantara of Brahma’s this day, say the vedas.


Each Manvantara is made up of 71 Mahayuga. We are in the 28th Mahayuga of this Manvantara say the vedas.

A Mahayuga is a collection of 4 Yugas. Maha means giant or huge.
The 4 yugas are Satya Yuga (also called Krita Yuga), Treta Yuga, Dwapara Yuga, Kali Yuga. We are in the Kaliyuga of our current Mahayuga say the vedas.

Satya Yuga lasts for 40% of its Mahayuga – Age of divine where humans need no physical means to exist and are in direct contact with the God

Treta Yuga lasts for 30% of its Mahayuga – Age where bad deeds start appearing, still there is lot of truth, infact 3/4 of this age is still goodness

Dwapara Yuga lasts for 20% of its Mahayuga-Dwapara means after the second, where there are almost equal amount of good and bad

Kali Yuga lasts for 10% of its Mahayuga- Kali means Darkness in Sanskrit (not to be confused with Kaali which is godess), no wonder we are in this age

Now finally we have reached to a timescale which we can relate to our own years.
1 Kaliyuga = 432000 solar years!

A Kaliyuga has the length of one Yuga. So One Mahayuga has 10 Yugas of which four are in Satya Yuga, 3 in Treta Yuga, 2 in Dwapara and 1 in Kali Yuga.

So a Mahayuga = 10 times the Kaliyuga i.e 4,320,000 solar years


Let us do some reverse calculations now to find out the age of the universe as per the vedas.

1 Mahayuga = 4,320,000 years
1 Manvantara = 71 Mahayugas
1 day of Brahma = 14 Manvantaras = 994 Mahayugas
Now a small addition here, Vedas also say that before and after each Manvantara there is a gap equivalent to 4 Yugas (Not MahaYugas).
So now, 1 day of Brahma = 14 Manvantaras + (15 x 4 Yugas)
= 994 Mahayugas + 60 Yugas
= 994 Mahayugas + 6 MahaYugas = 1000
So 1 day of Brahma = 1000 MahaYugas = 4,320,000,000 years
1 night is again 1000 MahaYugas = = 4,320,000,000 years

1 Complete day = day + night = 8,640,000,000 years = 8.64 billion years

Note that we are in the 7th Manvantara of this day. So let us calculate how many years have passed since today started for Brahma.

Step 1: For 6 Manvantaras we have 71x 6 = 426 Mahayugas
Step 2: Then we have the gaps between each Manvantara which is 7 x 4 Yugas = 2.8 MahaYugas
Step 3: Then we have the current Mahayuga in our Manvantara which is 28th, we are in the last 1/10 of it (Remember Kaliyuga is the last of 4 yugas and spans 1/10 of a Mahayuga). So it is 27.9 Mahayugas.

So all put together we have 426+2.8+27.9 = 456.7 Mahayugas have been already spent in current day of Brahma. Approximately 543 more to go before we all are absorbed back into the Brahma

Okay so 456.7 in terms of years is 456.7 x 4,320,000 = 1,972,944,456 which is about 2 billion years. Somewhat close to what evolution proposes for life on earth.

Age of the Universe

Now lets find out the age of our universe as per the vedas. Let us consider the age of the Brahma to be the age of the universe. This is one number which no modern theory can even come anywhere near to it.
As we saw earlier a day of Brahma has 2000 MahaYugas (day+night).
There are 360 days in a year for Brahma and we are in the first day of 51st year.
So far 360 x 50= 18000 days have passed for Brahma
This is equivalent to 18000 x 2000 x 4320000 Human Years
In other words 155,520,000,000,000 Human Years
Add the current day of Brahma which is 1,972,944,456 Humans Years

So as per the vedas, the current age of the universe is 155,521,972,944,456 Years which is about 155,522 billion years !!! Modern day science has been able to predict age of our universe to be only about 15-20 billion years! Moreover Since we are in the first day of 51st year of Brahma, almost equal amout of time has to pass before this universe ends!!

So either modern science still has a long way to go in estimating the age of our universe
the universe mentioned in vedas is the mother of all universes (a multiverse probably) including our own universe !!!

More interesting:

Vedas also say that the average human life span in each yuga is as follows:
Kali Yuga = 100 Years
Dwapara Yuga = 200 Years
Treta Yuga = 300 Years
Satya Yuga = 400 Years !
I observed another interesting fact here. Vedas are also implying by this that humans are not limited to planet earth nor to this universe alone. We belong to other Yugas as well where we live a longer life!! More than the length of the life, a greater depth as well
Aliens, please come and meet me, wanna discuss a lot, people on earth are busy making money
Brahma, please put me in some parallel universe.
By the way, universe means one verse, the one verse which created this universe “OM”

Is there any place in Sikhi for such distractions?
"Kaljug" and "Satjug" are terms occasionally used in gurbani as metaphors. But should they ever be applied in Sikhi in the way Hindus do?
We invite your comments, as part of this week's ROUNDTABLE OPEN FORUM - # 85. 
... Back to February 14, 2012

Conversation about this article

1: Lara Singer (New York, U.S.A.), February 14, 2012, 9:09 AM.

What earthly ... or heavenly ... use are these figures and calculations? And when does this chap, or whoever believes in this stuff as being meaningful, has time to pray, or work, or play ... or, simply, live?

2: Kanwarjeet Singh (Franklin Park, New Jersey, U.S.A.), February 14, 2012, 10:43 AM.

Are these not the same people who have the tubeless supply of water to the sun via the Ganges?

3: Keerat Singh (Gurgaon, India), February 14, 2012, 11:40 AM.

I look around me at all the goings-on in the world, and no day goes by when I don't thank the One for the gift of Sikhi - a simple life of kirtan, kirat and wund chhakna. The rest I gladly leave to busy-bodies who tear around the place, not unlike the mice described in the Guru Granth Sahib, frantically and frenetically tearing the paper in their holes into ever smaller and smaller little bits ...

4: G.C. Singh (U.S.A.), February 14, 2012, 1:22 PM.

Besides star and navel gazing super-technologies, the 330 million strong Hindu gods and goddesses have also cracked the super secret of the elixir of life for the entire mankind which it seems is all set to become the "national drink" of India. Here is the latest from ABC news: "In a country where cows are sacred, drinking their urine is close to godliness. And better yet, it's marketable. Along with protecting the bovine beast, the Cow Protection Department of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) wants to make a cola from the cow's urine, which they say has curative properties. "It has been established that cow urine is capable of curing even cancer, so imagine a drink which would not only be tasty but also healthy," Om Prakash, leader of RSS, told ABC News.

5: R. Singh (Canada), February 14, 2012, 2:54 PM.

The deep rooted inferiority complex propels this kind of endless rhetoric about anything and everything trivial, defying the very basic logic that all humans have the same capacity to learn, discern, evolve, create and philosophize. Unless one is to believe the people of that little triangular piece of land are some sort of experimental slaves, with no minds of their own, to some superior beings, so there had to be given written instructions for everything they were supposed to have said or done or ever said or done to date, this ideology is just plain infantile. Those beings could not have been very efficient in creating their proteges, who unwittingly sit on the blueprints, mostly rendered illiterate by an unholy bunch of caretaker priests, waiting for millenniums for someone to steal and develop them. That is, besides the fact that not a single part of the famous planes nor gadgets were ever excavated. Here's a project for the RSS gang: make sure to 'discover' some stuff to match their wild dreams in some remote corner to validate at least some of the tall claims. Merely sitting on scrolls/writings indicates a bunch of nuts who have no idea about what they perhaps got their hands on in the first place, that is if all those blueprints' timelines can be validated, away from the increasing frenzied, fascist mind-set, hungry to grab power through rhetoric alone. Anyone can come up with theoretic timelines that are meaningless in the greater scheme of things.

6: H. Singh (United States), February 14, 2012, 2:59 PM.

Though the math in the above article is off, way off ... I think the story of Brahma and Vishnu uses folklore and mythology to explain the origins and physical context of our universe. Guru Granth Sahib often quotes this mythology to illustrate a point, but it never even suggests that these stories are anything but fantastical and mythical lore.

7: Yuktanand Singh (MI, U.S.A.), February 14, 2012, 3:05 PM.

The short answers are, no and no. Guru Nanak tackled these questions right in the beginning, in Japji, with at least two references to mythology / theology. One reference is to "dhaul dharam" or the bull that is said to support the earth; the other is the time debates, when did everything start, etc. We read: "Nanak aakhan sabh ko aakhai" - that everyone is wiser than others, but in fact, there are countless universes and existences: "paatala pataal lakh aagaasa aagaas". We are busy measuring the beginning of just one of them. We make a mistake the moment we start trying to limit ourselves to numbers.

8: Yuktanand Singh (MI, U.S.A.), February 14, 2012, 3:11 PM.

There is nothing wrong with scientific investigation but Guru Nanak said, "saalahee saalah" - meaning, always continue to praise, and say Waheguru ("wow-guru"). Just as a river cannot find the edge of an ocean, we can never see the beginning or the end of creation, or anything, for that matter. Gurmat (Guru's wisdom) teaches us to enjoy, study and praise the grandeur, without harboring a delusion of having discovered everything. With the Guru's perspective, we would not obsess with whose numbers were more accurate if we knew that after we finish finding correct time of the Big Bang, we will discover that this was simply one day in the life of this universe, out of countless other universes.

9: Sangat Singh (Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia), February 14, 2012, 4:18 PM.

"kaho naanak kartay kee-aa baataa(n) jo kichh karna so kar raih-a" [GGS:469.12] - "Nanak speaks the stories of the Creator Waheguru; whatever He is to do, He does!" Is there anything more to say?

10: Bibek Singh (Jersey City, New Jersey, U.S.A.), February 14, 2012, 4:38 PM.

I highly recommend reading the book, 'Gurbaani Vich Vaigyanik Sach' by Professor Inder Singh of Patiala. These days I am involved in getting it translated into English. Hopefully it should be ready by this month end. Interested people can email me at '' for a free copy.

11: Mohan Singh (Toronto, Ontario, Canada), February 14, 2012, 7:42 PM.

According to gurbani, satjug is any time, any where, there is purity, contentment, compassion, faith and truthfulness ... and kaljug is when and wgere there is koorr, kapatt, agan, jhootth and corruption. You can have either of the situations even today, or at any given time. Read more in Aasa ki Vaar [GGS:470].

12: Mohan Singh (Toronto, Ontario, Canada), February 16, 2012, 5:12 PM.

Which Brahma's life span these calculations are referring to? Because, according to gurbani as well as the Vedic literature, there are innumerable Brahmas! As per Guru Granth, all of man's calculations are in maya (duality and relative consciousness) and haumai (ego); hence, illusionary or deluded. The references in it to yugs, etc., are tied to mythology ... and not to be taken literally!

13: Charandeep Singh (Chandigarh, Punjab), August 10, 2012, 8:30 AM.

Guru Nanak says - "thit vaar na jogi jaane." A jogi/sage does not know anything about days and times. Only the Creator only knows about all these.

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Vedas And The Navel Gazers:
The Roundtable Open Forum # 85 "

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